DQ4 - 7/3/17
This is for pages 120-160 and/or 160-225 of The Sun Also Rises. Please don't forget to have the novel finished by Wednesday the 5th. Thanks, all.
DQ 11 - "For Esmé with Love and Squalor", "Pretty Mouth and Green My Eyes" and "Teddy"
Hi all, DQ 11 is on these last three short stories. Thanks for a good discussion today. Tomorrow will be similar as today, but we'll also go over NYU Press' Keywords' Web Essays at http://keywords.nyupress.org/american-cultural-studies/ which could be useful for your problem statements. Just a reminder: The problem statement is now 800 words due Friday too Turn It In in our Bb assignments tab, and the first draft of 1,200 is due Tuesday at 7. Wednesday through Monday we'll have conferences. Also: If you have some extra time after reading these Salinger stories, Pinter's Mountain Language and then one day after, No Man's Land will be next.
7/2/17
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 15 of the sun also rises the bullfights start after the seven days of heavy drinking where Cohn, Brett, Jake, Mike, and Bill are introduced to a bullfighter named Romero. Jake says Romero is the best looking boy he has ever seen and Brett seems to start having a thing for Romero? Do you think Jake notices and gets jealous? Also when Jake tells Brett that bull fighters beat their mothers, do you think he does this out of jealousy or that he does this just as a joke?
Throughout their time in Spain, Mike has repeatedly embarrassed Richard for being there and always following around Brett. Mike explains that he should just leave because no one wants him here. Even Brett asks him to leave her and Jake alone. Why does Richard continue to take the embarrassment? Why does he not leave, even when he knows that Brett is not in love with him?
ReplyDeleteTowards the end of chapter 16 Pedro Romero explains how the bulls are his friends and he has to kill them before they kill him. This explanation is like an analogy to how you would want to stop being friends with someone because they drag you down. Could this relate to Jake and Richard’s friendship?
In these 65 pages of reading, we learn that Jake is very passionate about bull-fighting…why? Is there a background and history of why and what his connection is to it and his love for it? What’s the reasoning for why bull-fighting plays a role in the novel? Is it because Hemingway had many ties to famous bull-fights?
ReplyDeleteAlso, why does Jake keep ties with Brett if he likes her so much but nothing between them can/will (i think as of up to now) happen?
Jake and Bill are constantly teaming up against Cohn. Jake and Bill share certain common backgrounds that they bond over such as religion, and serving in World War I. Do you think this is the reason why they are constantly going against Cohn or could be it that they are anti-semitic therefor they do not like Cohn for his jewish religion?
ReplyDeleteEveryone has a way of avoiding certain things. Could this be Jake and Bill's way of avoiding certain topics of conversation, by mocking Cohn? Jake could obviously be jealous of Cohn's affair with Brett and could be mocking and making fun of him as revenge.
In chapter XIII, Mike is very annoyed with Cohn because he is always hanging around Brett. He says that Brett has had many affairs but none of the men stuck around. He also mentions the fact that Cohn is jewish. Do you think that Mike is more annoyed with the fact that Brett had an affair with a jew or that he hasn't left her side since?
When Jake, Cohn, and Brett all go to the running of the Bulls in Spain it seems to be a very violent event. It is interesting to see that Jake tells Brett not to look at what is happening. Is this a direct correlation to women being shielded from the violence that goes on during the war, just like Brett is being now?
ReplyDeleteMy second question from this reading is about the extreme consumerism attitude that is going on during the 1920s. Jakes seems to be annoyed with how flashy people are with their money. Do you think Jake is just jealous of not having as much money as them? Or does he wish that his writing actually took off to a point where he would be that rich?
July 2, 2017
ReplyDeleteIn chapters 12-13 it seems as if Hemingway keeps adding more and more references that Cohn is Jewish. Doe he do this for a specific reason? Hemingway has been called anti-Semitic for this novel because it is brought up very often that Cohn is Jewish. I also wonder who the person is that Hemingway based Robert Cohn’s character off of and if there was a reason why he wants everyone to know that the character is Jewish.
I’ve noticed how Hemingway calls Robert Cohn by both his first and last name throughout the novel. Is there a reason he does this? Also this is the only character that Hemingway does this to, everybody else is just referred to as the same one name. Could this be because sometimes he feels like he needs to say his name in a more formal way so he calls him by his last name?
Brieanna Graves
ReplyDelete7-2-17
My first questions is in chapter 13, Jake and Cohn are talking and Jake goes “Nobody ever lives their life all the way up except bull fighters”. Hemingway spends a few pages talking about bull-fighting. Why did Hemingway elaborate so much on this? Is there something Jake is trying to imply by this statement?
My second question happens in chapter 16, Brett and Jake are talking and Brett asks him if he still loves her. Of course his answer is yes, but she doesn’t have these feelings toward him anymore, and later on flirts with Romero. Why did Brett feel the need to lead Jake on if she is actually in love with Romeo?
Olivia Longshore 7/2
ReplyDelete1.In-between pages 120-160, Jake and Bill are in Pamplona speaking to a man about the bull fighting. Jake tells bill that when the bulls are put into the arena, they put steers in there to calm down the bulls regardless of their safety. The bull symbolizing men and the steers symbolizing women. Could this possibly be a metaphor of the view on women roles in society during the 1920’s? Or even symbolize rape with how the bull charges the steer and drives his horns through the steers body?
2. After watching the bulls be released, Micheal passive-aggressively takes a jab at Robert Cohn by comparing him to a steer for following around Brett. Why does Micheal wait until now to confront Cohn about having an affair with Brett? And why does it make a difference if Cohn is jewish if Michael knows about Bretts many other affairs?
Kylie Simmons
ReplyDelete7-2-17
Why does Jake feel that everything good in life costs money? Aren't friendships and relationships free? I feel this is a very pessimistic view of life and wonder why Hemingway wrote Jake to feel this way.
Why don't any of the characters express how the war took a toll on their mental state? They seem to joke about it often when in reality I feel it was very hard for everyone involved. I think it affected the characters mental state and ability to make and continue healthy relationships.
Karina Amalbert
ReplyDeleteJuly 2nd, 2017
Reading these few chapters have led me to question various intentions by Hemingway so far into the book. I feel as though we have reach a plateau in the book where various intentions of the characters are in a way predictable. It has been seen time in and time out the same interaction between Brett and Jake and the hostility towards Cohn, especially when the entire group is together. Why has Hemingway continued this reoccurring situation? Could it in some way relate to the moments in Hemingway’s life of dullness while life is happening around him leading to his depression? Or could this continue to correlate to the characters privilege of being filled with money but feel isolated from society?
Isabeau Cordes
ReplyDelete7/2/17
1. In the beginning of the book, Hemingway describes how Cohn dealt with discrimination because he was Jewish. This was done to explain some things about his personality. Now later in the book some of the other characters continue to use anti-semitic slurs regarding him. Since we as readers already know about Cohn being Jewish, what purpose does this serve?
2. When Brett and Jake are with Romero, Jake is translating Romero’s Spanish for Brett to understand. Knowing that Jake is in love with Brett and that Brett is attracted to Romero this seemed a little strange. Why would Jake want to facilitate this relationship between them, as later they sleep together?
Tyler Crane
ReplyDelete7/2/17
In chapter 16, Brett asks Jake if he still loves her. Jake obviously responds by saying he does. Immediately, Brett states that she's in love with Romero. This is another instance where Brett`s words/actions makes the reader feel bad for Jake. Does Hemingway want to create sympathy for Jake? or is he just trying to develop Brett`s character.
In chapter 17, Cohn angrily walks into the Cafe demanding to know where Brett is. Things escalate very fast and Cohn ends up punching both Jake and Mike in the face. This caught me by surprise. Why was Cohn so angry? was it because Brett was with Romero?
In chapter 15 they all go and watch a bullfight. During the fight Bill, Jake, Mike seem to become very protective of Brett. While Cohn just complains about being bored and does not really have the same protectiveness that the other men have. Could this be because he did not fight in the war and when the other men saw fighting it brought back similar feelings that fighting in the war had?
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 18 Brett and Jake go for a walk and they pass a church but Brett turns it down going in and Jake wants to because he claims religion works for him. Brett questions if he is being honest and I wonder that also because he has never seemed interested in church before.
Parker Mealey
ReplyDelete7/2/17
Cohn is obviously in love with Brett, and one evening he even gets into fights with almost all the male characters that we know of. No sane person would do this over a woman, and it begs the question, is this Brett's fault? What did she tell him when they were away together that made him this infatuated over her?
Hemingway is notorious for his straightforward writing style, not including too many unnecessary details. However, when describing the different settings that the story takes place in, sometimes Hemingway can go on for multiple pages describing the scenery. Why does he do this if it is not absolutely essential to the story?
In Chapter 13 a lot of things happened that I found to be very interesting. Although I was confused about one particular thing. Mike started hounding Cohn about his affairs with Brett but he took it all out on Cohn as if Brett had nothing to do with it. Why is this? Mike acts as if Brett is innocent and it's all Cohn's fault but I feel that she encourages Cohn and that is why he acts the way he does. It is also the same way with Jake, he is more mad at Cohn rather than Brett but they are both equally responsible. Why do they both take it out on Cohn and not Brett?
ReplyDeleteAnother question I have is about Jake's feelings towards Brett. In a conversation with Bill about Brett and Cohn, he says it doesn't bother him anymore and he doesn't care about her, but as soon as she arrives he walks with her and he also comments on how beautiful she looked at the evening dinner. Why does Jake not admit to Bill that her relations with Cohn do bother him and why does he act as if he does not care?
It seems like none of the characters in the book like each other, specifically Cohn, yet the all still go on vacation with each other. Why is this? why do they not seem like to like Cohn that much yet still be a friend to him?
ReplyDeleteHistorically what was going on in Spain at the time? i know the swainish revolution took place around the time that the book takes place. Do these events affect the book in any way?
ReplyDeleteMy first question after this weekends reading is, why does Hemingway emphasize so much on the life of a bull rider and, why does he praise them so much? is is because he is a huge fan of the sport or, is he simply trying to show the audience how he thinks people should live their lives to the fullest and live on the edge? Or maybe is it even because he regrets not living an edgy enough life and wants to represent those feelings in the novel?
My second question after this weekends reading is; why does Brett ask Jake if he still loves her just to tell him she's falling in love with Romero immediately after? is this just a way for Hemingway to create little twist in the book or is Brett really just an attention seeker who likes to hear people talk about her and pronounce their love to her ?
In chapter 14, Jake presents a monologue from his bed after a night of drinking. He manifests an internal conflict of feeling for Cohn. He makes it obvious that he doesn't like Cohn by exclaiming "Cohn can go to hell" and how he liked seeing drunken Mike be mean to Cohn. He then contradicts himself by explaining how he wishes Mike would be nicer to Cohn. The question then arises: is it moral or immoral to feel enjoy something and regretting it afterword? Is Jake right to feel bad for Cohn or wrong for enjoying it in the first place?
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 16 Jake is introduced to Pedro Romero--a young bullfighter from Malaga. It is at this point that we realize Jake is an avid bullfight aficionado. Through the conversation that these two have upon meeting, Jake slips multiple subtle lies to seemingly impress or befriend his new acquaintance. Is this indicative of a minor flaw in Jake's personality? Is this Hemingway's way of hinting at Jake's desire to be accepted by those he respects?
Lauren Fiorito
ReplyDeleteJuly 2, 2017
When Jake was in the cathedral, he starts to say how he is a bad Catholic and that there is nothing he can do about it. What does this mean? Why does he think that there isn’t time or any possibility to fix how religious he is? He then starts to doubt that he even wants to be religious and maybe next time he will be. Does Hemingway add this random scene to make us know a little more about Jake, or is there a bigger picture?
The innkeeper said that it was the “big season” and that’s why she charged them a lot more for their room, but in reality there was no one else there. What does this mean exactly and why didn’t they realize that this was an empty place and didn’t care?
Daniella Alamo
ReplyDeleteAlthough the whole group loves bull fighting Jake seems to be the one that has the most passion about it. What makes bull fighting a much bigger interest to Jake then the rest of the characters? Why does he take a bigger interest in it?
Jake, Cohn, Bill, Mike, and Brett attend a bull fight in chapter 15. They all seem pretty into the bull fight although Cohen tries to cover up his grossness over the fight. Bill once again makes jokes about Cohn to his face. What is the reasoning behind Bill's constant nagging? Most of the characters seem to have an annoyance with Cohen but Bill's is the worst. Why?
Isaac Bendus
ReplyDelete7/2/17
While reading “The Sun also Rises” by Ernest Hemingway from pages 120 to page 185 It left me with two questions the first is why does Jake tell Bill that he is no longer in love with Brett? Does Jake do this to help himself move on from her because he knows he can’t have her? Or is it something else?
The second question is why does Cohn take the abuse from Michael after the bull fight? Cohn did sleep with Brett and Michael found out about it but Cohn did not even try to deny it, why?
Anthony Duarte
ReplyDelete7/2/17
My question occurs in chapter 16 as to why Brett felt the need to ask Jake if he loved her if she already knew what she was going to tell him and that his response wouldn't have made a difference to her? I felt as if she just wanted to hear him say that he loved her but I don't understand why he would help her find Romero?
I was also curious as to why bull fighting is such a reoccurring topic in the story? I wonder if Hemingway had another meaning or if it symbolizes something amongst the characters especially since Jake is the one who has the most interest in them?
DeleteWhile everyone is at the fiesta, it appears to be an all-out drunken fest. People where drinking out of wineskins. It seems to be a pretty crazy time and really hectic. Jake points out that nobody had any cares for consequences. Why did everyone not care about anything? Was it because they were so drunk, or possibly because of their personalities being so self-centered?
ReplyDeleteWe know that when Jake loses Cohn, he appears to be the only person that is concerned with him disappearing. He eventually finds him passed out. This is pretty bad that nobody really cared where he was, because many bad things could have happened to him. This situation shows how Jake is a good friend of Cohn. Why is Jake the only one who was concerned with his disappearance.
Tried posting earlier but it didn't go through...
ReplyDeleteEthan Vaughan 7/2
1. Bill criticizes Jake for being an expatriate and adopting many of the luxurious habits that Europeans possessed and many Americans lacked. Jake does not really refute Bill's assertion in any manner. Is Jake proud of this label or is he simply not interested in arguing with Bill?
2. Wilson-Harris fought in World War 1 along with Jake and Bill. They become very close friends in a short time while fishing in the hills of Spain. What role does their shared past of being veterans of the war play in this?
In class Mr. Patterson mentioned that Robert was a scapegoat, and it has been portrayed in the assigned chapters. In the beginning of the book Cohn was sort of felt out of place because he was Jewish. In chapter thirteen mike makes a rude remark. Why does Robert continue to socialize with his "friends" if they treat him as if he isn't wanted? A lot of the book ties back to the war, is their any significance in Robert being the scapegoat?
ReplyDeleteSo far, most of the characters have opened up to each other in one way or another; however, Michael refuses to do so. While at a meal with the whole clique, Michael is asked multiple times to tell stories regarding his military experiences. He refuses to do so, why is this?
ReplyDeleteMichael compares Cohn to a steer because they tend to "lead a quiet life." Cohn took this as an insult. Did Michael purposely try and hurt Robert Cohns feelings even though they are friends? Michael does seem to capitalize on situations that make him seem funny, regardless of whether or not it is the right time and place.