Hi all, DQ 11 is on these last three short stories. Thanks for a good discussion today. Tomorrow will be similar as today, but we'll also go over NYU Press' Keywords' Web Essays at http://keywords.nyupress.org/american-cultural-studies/ which could be useful for your problem statements. Just a reminder: The problem statement is now 800 words due Friday too Turn It In in our Bb assignments tab, and the first draft of 1,200 is due Tuesday at 7. Wednesday through Monday we'll have conferences. Also: If you have some extra time after reading these Salinger stories, Pinter's Mountain Language and then one day after, No Man's Land will be next.
Ethan Vaughan 6-27
ReplyDeleteIn The Sun Also Rises, Brett visits and wakes Jake up at four in the morning merely to say a few words and depart hastily for breakfast. Why does she choose to wake Jake up for such a menial interaction? Why doesn’t she turn down the Count and stay longer with Jake if she loves him?
Brett claims that she loves Jake. She has been married once since they met and is currently in the process of divorcing her first husband and marrying another man that isn’t Jake. Is the reason for Brett not involving herself romantically with Jake purely a physical matter or is there another, deeper explanation?
In chapter five we learn that Brett and Jake met while she was working as a VAD during WW1. After reading this I wondered what their relationship was like during this time and if Brett knew Jacob before he was wounded? At the time they met the trauma from war might not have affected Jacob yet so I am wondering if it is possible that she could have helped him through this process?
ReplyDeleteThe second question I had while reading the next fews chapters was why Jake was hesitant to call Cohn his best friend. In class we discussed how Cohn was dependent on Jacob because of his bad experience at Princeton but is there an experience that Jacob had which led him to have the opposite affect and be nervous to rely on people for help?
Peter Hoyt
ReplyDeleteWhen Frances pulls Jake away from Cohn, she expresses her sadness because she knows that Cohn doesn't want to marry her. I was really struck by this conversation because Frances spoke about marriage as if it was a simple business deal, or some sort of non-emotional action, like running an errand. My first question is why this is the case, was this simply how marriage was considered back then, unemotionally, or is this a strange circumstance? On a smaller note, I noticed the same sort of emotional disconnect when Jake sat there and watched his friend get destroyed by Frances in public. He spoke about it in a very non-affected manner. If one of my friends was being insulted like that, i would be quite upset and try to help. Another conversation that struck me was when Brett and the Count were bantering back and forth in Jake’s apartment. The count asks repeatedly for Brett to just simply talk to him, instead of just letting other people talk for her and getting drunk. Brett seems incapable of doing this, and that was very strange to me. why is this the case? And what could Hemingway be trying to tell us by making Brett incapable of simply having a normal conversation?
In Harold Bloom's biography of Hemingway he talks a lot about how Hemingway was depressed, paranoid and having mental problems. What was causing these problems in Hemingway's life? Did it effect his writing in anyway besides preventing him from writing?
ReplyDeleteIn the same biography, Bloom talks a lot about how Hemingway wrote himself into the character of Jake. Besides the wound from the war how else does Hemingway write himself into the book?
Isaac Bendus
ReplyDelete6 - 27 – 17
After reading pages 40 to 80 in the sun also rises by Ernest Hemingway it left me with two questions the first is why does Robert Cohn get cold feet about marrying Frances? Is it because they have very little in common? Is it because Cohn wants to travel and experience the world while Frances is perfectly content staying put in Paris? Is what Frances said about the mistress true?
The second question is why does Brett seem so frustrating as a person? She constantly tells Jake that she is in love with him and that he is the one for her, but when Jake talks about settling down and getting married she does not like the idea.
Kayla Camarillo
ReplyDeleteJune 27, 2017
In the Sun Also Rises I am still confused as to why Brett seems as if she likes Jake but is engaged to someone else. She also just recently got out of a divorce so I find it weird that she kissed Jake. You could tell she has feelings but in chapter 6 she misses her date with Jake. I wonder if something else happened in their past other than Jakes injury?
My second question relates to what was mentioned in our class discussion today about how Hemingway is relating himself to the character Jake. I wonder what other ways he is similar to the character other than the fact that Hemingway was also wounded while he was serving as an ambulance driver in Italy during World War 1.
Cohn wants to go to South American because he feels it will "complete," or add some kind of meaning to his life. Although Cohn is in a relationship with Frances he ask Jake to go because he says that Frances is no fun. I feel like Cohn is running from something, so with that being said what is Cohn running from? Is it Frances? Or is he searching for something that he feels he is missing?
ReplyDeleteAt the café Jake and Cohn are sitting and talking when Frances approaches. Frances then ask to speak with Jacob alone and she tells him about how Cohn will not marry her. Why does Frances start to expose Cohn when her and Jake return from talking? She just told Jake about what was going on but when she is talking down to Cohn she speaks as if Jake does not know the situation when she clearly just finished telling him. Why does she do this?
Lauren Fiorito
ReplyDeleteJune 27, 2017
In chapter six, Frances expresses her full thoughts and reasoning’s on why Cohn won’t marry her. Cohen is hearing her full mind-set along with Jake, so if he sees now how she is, and knows that she knows that he wont marry her, why cant he go to South America by himself? Nothing is stopping him so why is he still with her?
Why does Jake go on and talk about how Cohn won’t stand up for himself and “take it” from Frances, but he does the same with Brett? He is in a way being used and is doing nothing about it. He keeps going back to her and telling her how much he loves her and wants to live with her and she just wont give anything back to him. We see how she is with the Count and how she even tells him that she loves him, all in front of Jake. So, why does Hemingway let “strong war veteran Jake Barnes” be in a way bullied by this British woman who will never be with him?
Daniella Alamo
ReplyDeleteIn the sun also rises by Ernest Hemingway, Robert Cohen seems to be Jake Barnes' best friend and they often spend time together. Jake often asks Cohen if he's had any success writing his second novel and Cohen seems to be struggling. Why can't Cohen finish his novel? Is that the reason why he wants to go to South America? To find inspiration?
In class we spoke about Jake's war wound and how its affected his life and his relationship with Brett. Is that the only reason they cant be together or did Brett also have trauma from being a nurse during the war? Had the couple ever tried to see if a relationship could work or did they decide from the beginning that they would never be a couple?
Olivia Longshore
ReplyDelete1. Throughout the first 40 pages of Hemingway’s “The Sun Also Rises”, it is apparent that Robert Cohn is insecure in just about every aspect of his life. This leads him to marry a woman he does not love or even like very much, and cling to Jake for he is his one of his only friends. As a Princeton boy and a descendent of a rich family, what made Robert so insecure to the point where he is unable to make his own decisions?
2. The first 40 pages of “The Sun Also Rises” by Hemingway introduces the confusing and complex relationship between Jake and Brett. Towards the end of chapter 5, Jake reveals to Robert that Brett is in the middle of a divorce and is engaged to be married; however, it appears that Jake and Brett are in love. Why is Brett unable to commit to Jake and vice-versa?
Gaby Ovadia
ReplyDeleteJune 27, 2017
Brett makes excuses as to why she and Jake cannot get married. She claims that she will make Jake unhappy by not being loyal to him. If Jake and Brett are as in love as they say they are, then what makes it so hard for them to spend the rest of their lives together?
In the beginning of Cohn and Frances relationship, Frances was grumpy and careless. Now, she is compassionate and in love. Do you think the reason why Cohn doesn't want to marry Frances is because he likes the chase? He doesn't like being smothered with love? Or maybe he likes taken women because she was going through a divorce at the time?
Brieanna Graves
ReplyDeleteJune 27, 2017
My first question is about a response that was said at the beginning of chapter 5, during Robert and Jakes’ conversation Frances is mentioned and Robert states “I can’t. I’ve got certain obligations to her.” What obligations is he implying by stating this and why does he have these obligations?
My second question is throughout the story Brett is referred to as either Lady Ashley or just Brett; what is the significance of Brett being called “Lady” Ashley and I wonder Hemingway decide to give her two names instead of just one name like every other character we’ve met so far.
Isabeau Cordes
ReplyDelete06/27/17
1.What are Hemingway’s intentions with his portrayal of Brett? Many of her characteristics are seemingly “masculine”, especially for a woman in that time period. Her name is a typically male name, and she has casual relationships and an attitude towards intimacy that is more stereotypical of a man. Is this meant to contrast with Jake, who is male but is unable to be with a woman, which makes him less of a man in a way?
2.In chapter 5 we learn that the man Brett loved died during the war, and now she is just divorced and about to marry someone new, while claiming to be in love with Jake. She clearly does not know how to have a functional relationship. Is this meant to show that the war scarred her similarly to how it scarred Jake? While Jake is unable to be in a physical relationship, Brett is unable to be in an emotional one.
Karina Amalbert
ReplyDeleteJune 27th, 2017
During the scene of Brett and Jake sitting in a taxi (chapter four), Hemingway uses many symbolic techniques such as the shade and light shifting during the car ride. One stylistic technique which stood out to me was Brett’s eyes appearing flat as certain shifts occurred during their conversation. My first question is as to how is this of relevance to Hemingway’s symbolic usage in this section of the novel?
Towards the middle of chapter four, after Jake arrives at his house, Hemingway seems to slow down the tempo of the events and goes into a greater detail of Jake’s night routine. For the next few chapters, this flow continues in which everything is described in great detail. Why would Hemingway slow down this specific section of the novel and not other events?
Tyler Crane
ReplyDeleteJune 27th, 2017
All throughout this reading, Hemingway has negatively developed Frances as a character. He does this both directly with Jakes dialogue, as well as indirectly, by examining the way Frances treated Cohn in chapter 6. Why does Hemingway develop Frances in such a way? Is he exemplifying the contrast between her and Blake?
Jake makes it very clear in these chapters that he does not agree with the way Frances treats Cohn. Although they are friends , this conflict could be seen as a turning point to their friendship. Did Jakes feelings towards Frances and Cohn's relationship spark the change in the two`s friendship? Or should it be blamed directly on their interactions with Blake.
In Chapter 5 Jake reveals that he met Brett during World War 2 but doesn't come right out and say that he likes her to Cohn. Why is this that he waits? He gets mad when Cohn is talking in a downwards tone towards Brett but he has no reason to really get mad when Cohn says this since technically Brett isn't obligated to Jake but he feels that he is to her. What could've happened that made him so angry.
DeleteA second question is how do Jake and Cohn stay this close when they can get into heated arguments like this? Especially about a touchy subject like Brett. Is Brett more important to Jake or is Cohn?
Carolyn Collins
ReplyDeleteJune 27, 2017
In the first chapter of Ernest Hemingway’s “The Sun Also Rises”, Jake mentions how upset Cohn’s girlfriend, Frances, got when he suggested they visit a girl. Frances seems very manipulative and controlling towards Cohn, but could there be a deeper reason why she wouldn’t want Cohn hanging out with another girl? Cohn was really relieved when Jake dropped the subject, so maybe he has a guilty conscious.
Brett expresses to Jake that she couldn’t be with him because she would have sex with other men, since Jake is unable to do so. If this is the case, why does Brett continue to kiss Jake and tell him that she’s in love with him? She’s already engaged to another man as well, so why does she keep messing with Jake? If she is truly in love with Jake as she says she is, Brett wouldn’t be marrying another man.
Kevin Clifford
ReplyDeleteJune 27th, 2017
After reading the first 40 pages of "The Sun Also Rises" we start to learn a little bit about the characters lives. I was confused when Cohn asked Jake to come to South America with him, when he just moved back to the United States and became successful. Did he have other problems he didn't want to tell Jake as to why he wanted to go to South America so much?
Brett and Jake seem to like each other a lot and she even was offered money to go with some guy to the south of France, but decided to not go and see Jake. It seems like she is looking for different ways to keep him at a distance. I am wondering if she has anything to hide, or does she not want to be tied down?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSean Butler
ReplyDeleteJune 27, 2017
When Cohn comes into Jake's office, practically begging him to go to South America with him, I begin to question Cohns relationship with Frances because why would he not be asking his soon to be wife to go? Are they having troubles back at home? Or has Cohn lost interest in Frances because she's no fun?
Also in chapter 4 when Jake notices that Bretts eyes were "flat" when she was talking about how she feels like jelly when he touches her, as if she was just saying that like she did not mean it. Then all of a sudden, Jake feels as if he can see right through her eyes, as if she was telling the actual truth. By Jake expressing these observations to the reader, it begins to bring up the question of why Brett doesn't want anything to do with Cohn but still wants him to love her. It could mean that Brett is being two-faced and hiding things from Jake.
Evan Smyser
ReplyDelete6/27/17
One night Jake, Cohn and Frances are out to dinner and Frances begins to verbally abuse Cohn. This verbal abuse has arose multiple times so far and Cohn obviously just takes it instead of fighting back, until, he and Frances break up. What keeps Cohn from breaking up with Frances much earlier in the story line?
Also, Jake's relationship with Brett parallels that of Cohn and Frances. Brett treats Jake like a doormat, and Jake never seems to mind the mistreatment from Brett. What keeps Jake motivated to keep on trying to come in contact with Brett?
Keagan Giblin
ReplyDeleteJune 27, 2017
In Ernest Hemingway’s The Sun Also Rises, Lady Brett Ashley is in love with the main character Jacob Barnes and thinks of him as her closest friend. On several occasions when they have been out together and Jake is having a fine time, Brett confesses to him how miserable she is. Being that she is a strong, beautiful woman with men who would do anything to make her happy, why is it that she explains she is miserable out of the blue? And why only to Jake?
Frances Clyne from The Sun Also Rises seems to represent a woman who knows what she wants and intends to get it. The readers see how she truly feels towards Robert Cohn in chapter 6, when she confesses how she has wanted Robert to marry her for the past 3 years and presently she feels to old to find herself a husband to create a family. How is Frances perspective on marriage significant to the overall story?
After reading the first few chapters of the sun also rises, I became somewhat confused as to Cohn and his girlfriend's relationship because it seems like she is a gold digging and manipulative lady so I was wondering, what does Cohn see in her? what does he even like about her and why does he let her manipulate him in such a way.
ReplyDeletemy second question is, if Jake notices the downhill behavior of Cohn's girlfriend, like he book seems to say he does, then as a man and as a friend of Cohn, why doesn't he tell him anything or try and help him notice it. If he's really his friend he should be looking out for him and making sure he's being treated correctly.
Kylie rodriguez
ReplyDeleteJune 27, 2017
This is a little bit of a broad question pertaining to the novel so far: in this novel, the characters float from one place to another without any goals (i.e. They wander to clubs/bars), how does this reflect the time period/setting that Hemingway was writing in?
Also, How does the fast paced constantly changing party lifestyle of Lady Brett reflect her love for Jake. Is this an underlying factor of why they are not together? Or is it the unobtainable aspect of their relationship that draws them closer to only drive them apart?
6/27
ReplyDeleteA decent amount of character development takes place in the first part of chapter one. This is done through providing a background summary of our main character (who is not the narrator in this story). The fact that he is Jewish seems to have shaped him as a person and defined him in his time in college. Is this a reflection of society during this time period? Can we assume that race and religion were more generalized than it is today?
In the first few chapters it is established that Cohn is accepting of any girl who is nice to him as he is most likely not used to such attention from women or anybody for that matter. Can this speak to his naivety regarding other peoples intentions? As someone with a large inheritance and affluent background, you would think a character would be able to realize when they are being taken advantage of, however this is seemingly not the case.
In the story Brett says "it's my fault, Jake it's the way Im made." It's obvious that Brett and Jake love each other, but Brett won't let them be great. what does Brett mean when she says it's her fault and what's holding her back from her true love?
ReplyDeleteFrances told Jake that Robert doesn't want to be with her anymore,but she doesn't even seem sad. She complained that other men wanted her and that she could've been with them, do you think Frances ever really loved Robert?
1. While with Georgette in the horse cab, she attempts to kiss Jake, however he refuses to kiss her due to a war wound. Later on, he chooses to kiss a new woman named Brett multiple times. Why does he choose to kiss her instead of Georgette?
ReplyDelete2. Wars are known to severely hurt people that fight in them. We can see that the war left a physical impact on Jake. His injury prevented him from being able participate in sex, but it hasn’t stopped his desire. Did his participation in the war change him as person, if so through what aspects?
1. When Frances is talking with Jake about how Cohn is no longer marrying her she says that she just got the divorce and that she could have gotten alimony, so does the book ever talk about her previous marriage and children or did Hemingway not write any details in because they are ill relevant to the story?
ReplyDelete2. Why is Brett marrying Michael she admits to loving Jake, in the bar scene in chapter seven she shows that she has no real interest in Michel saying she has not even thought about him in weeks and she seems not to really care much about the wedding; so why is she marring him is it for his money?
In the first few chapters of the Sun Also Rises Jake’s disposition is set up as a character of much wealth and generosity, I noticed several times that Jake tended to feel less manly than. Why might Jake have self-confidence issues?
ReplyDeleteAnthony Duarte
ReplyDeleteJune 28, 2017
In chapter two of the “The Sun Also Rises” Cohn follows Jake back upstairs after having a drink with him at the cafe and ends up falling asleep in Jake’s chair. As Jake walks over to wake him up, Cohn begins to sleep talk and says “I can’t do it. I can’t do it. Nothing will make me do it.”. What makes him say these things in his dreams and have dreams like that?
Then in Chapter four, while Jake and Brett are talking, Jake mentions the different depths of Brett’s eyes and how they sometimes appear flat but now they seemed as if he could see right through them. I feel as if they are described this way to portray how open she wants to be at each moment as the eyes are usually known as the windows to the soul. Which therefore begs the question of what is she hiding when her eyes appear to be flat? It seems like if there is more to her that she doesn’t want people to know.